15:00 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> Hello. Welcome to Plenary session on Tuesday 15 October 16:00 - 17:30. My name is Johan Ã
hlén from the RIPE NCC. I will be monitoring chat during this session. If you have a question or comment, I can read it out for you. Please make your questions as clear as possible. I will read out any questions when the speaker asks for questions during the panel. Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on
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15:03 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> The panel about "Brokers and IPv4 Transfer Market" is now started by Filiz Yilmaz
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15:10 < chrisr> strict chair :)
15:11 < snobu> If we run out of v6 no worries mates. We're going with IPX.
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15:15 < chrisr> lol
15:15 < chrisr> snobu ... ipv6 will run out ? :-o
15:17 < snobu> let's run the internet over bonjour
15:17 < snobu> to be... friendly.
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15:21 < murb> so who are the folk sending spam to whois contacts?
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15:23 < brian> The mail I got came from Addrex.
15:23 < wtremmel> same here, Addrex inviting me to this very session
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15:29 < ketas> oh hell the extending and extendending the ipv4
15:30 < brian> Clearly moving to v6 is anti-business and dangerously socialist.
15:30 < ketas> when you move to ipv6 you're supporting communism
15:31 < Leander> Oh no not Socialism!
15:35 < ketas> auctioning your spare /30's
15:36 < murb> if you don't want your fees return it to the registery!
15:36 < brian> How many times can I resell any space I don't route on the public Internet? :)
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15:39 < snobu> This Christmas, get you significant other that /30 she's been dreaming of since you were in kindergarden. -- eBay --
15:39 < ketas> oh my
15:40 < ketas> how about we spend this effort and money into ipv6
15:43 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> Filiz Yilmaz has asked for questions.
15:45 < chrisr> it is a valid point, similar to CGN whereas if we invested half the time and resources into v6 then these we may be further forward then we are
15:46 < chrisr> selling /30s would be interesting ... lets see how quickly fib goes buh-bye and who actually routes the block ;)
15:47 < chrisr> dual stacked brokers :)
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15:49 < snobu> is anyone here who isn't going through he.net to reach.... stuff.. over v6?
15:50 < chrisr> we havent had any customers request v6 :-/
15:50 < ripe765> i *know* of someone
15:50 < ripe765> i use he.net at home too
15:50 < ripe765> like most :)
15:50 < ripe765> at work it's of course native
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15:50 < snobu> i mean i have native v6 at home and i still go through he.net for anything big like google/fb/even akamai
15:50 < murb> chrisr: i try and ask atleast once a year!
15:50 < chrisr> he.net = real world speedtest.net ;-)
15:51 < ripe765> my isp always says it's only me asking
15:51 < snobu> actually my native v6 has worse latency than tunneled he 6to4
15:51 < ripe765> my vpn service has been specifically chosen to support v6
15:51 < chrisr> murb - enabling it on a managed campus we're doing ... watching this via wifi / test v6 ds router Im testing for them now :)
15:52 < ripe765> not so much choice for home fiber connectivity
15:52 < ketas> i use sixxs... which in reality comes from linxtelecom
15:52 < ketas> :P
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15:54 < chrisr> we should be pushed out the uknof vids soon of the v4/v6 panel we did in uk access networks
15:55 < chrisr> its coming...
15:55 < chrisr> v6 that is ..
15:55 < ketas> ripe876: how does it feel that you're so special...
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15:56 < murb> how do they define "unused"
15:56 < ketas> we waste too much ipv6
15:56 < chrisr> i agree ketas
15:56 < chrisr> are guidelines still a /64 for p2p links..
15:57 < ketas> doh
15:57 < ketas> p2p links? :)
15:57 < chrisr> or are we being a little nicer with /126
15:57 < chrisr> point to point ...
15:57 < bminish> depends on what your hardware supports without falling over and dieng
15:57 < chrisr> true
15:58 < chrisr> will say this - the scribes are missing a few things, but overall doing an incredible job
15:58 < ketas> i mean... /48 is so large
15:59 < bminish> I as a rule like /126's for p2p /64 and a /56 for customers with a /48 for biz customers
15:59 < bminish> my RIPE allocated /32 will last us for the foreseeable
15:59 < chrisr> hasnt BCOP guidelines for blocks for customers etc
15:59 < Robert_RIPENCC> chrisr: they are professional stenographers, indeed doing a great job
15:59 < ketas> oh my, i can't get /48 for home anymore?
15:59 * ketas cries
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16:00 < bminish> we'll give you a /48 IF you ask for it. number of customers who have actually asked us for ipv6 I can count on no hands ;-)
16:00 < murb> bminish: toes?
16:01 < chrisr> same bminish..
16:01 < bminish> or those..
16:01 < ketas> even /56 is huge... even /64 is huge
16:02 < ketas> :)
16:02 < bminish> not much point in subnetting below /64 for a lan though
16:02 < murb> ketas: /64 isn't huge!
16:02 < murb> i need one per what bminish said.
16:02 < chrisr> remind me again on how many hosts breaks ethernet..
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16:03 < ketas> murb: sure, it's only 4b times 4b... that's low
16:03 < chrisr> wonder how many devices struggle to v6 subnets below a /64
16:03 < murb> chrisr: i've seen a /16 of v4 on a single 10bT network.
16:03 < chrisr> lots seem to have stopped at /64 and pick a big v6 ready sticker on
16:03 < murb> (yearly 90s university.)
16:04 < chrisr> murb: I know someone running a routable /8 internally as they once saw it on a suggested config guide
16:04 < chrisr> and it stuck
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16:04 < chrisr> in 1 vlan
16:04 < Barbarossa> There is at least one german university site which uses a /16 and proxy arp for the whole campus
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16:04 < murb> chrisr: oh i can count many places that do that.
16:04 < ketas> i wonder what's the price of 1.3.3.7/32
16:05 < ketas> i want that
16:05 < Barbarossa> And they tell you that it doesn't suck
16:05 < murb> chrisr: or worse suppliers who demand a VPN to 1.0.0.0/8
16:05 < chrisr> murb: wow
16:05 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> The panel has ended
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16:05 < chrisr> i have a t-shirt with 1337 on
16:05 < ketas> murb: what about 127.1.0.0/8
16:05 < chrisr> thanks to ixleeds :)
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16:05 < ripe765> broker discussions always make me want to make jokes about that, 'i can sell you a /8, very cheap, but you can only use it at home'
16:05 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> Geoff Huston, APNIC, has begun the lightning talk "Facebook and the GFW of China".
16:06 < ketas> hahaha
16:06 < ripe765> apparently people even made a business case out of that...
16:06 * chrisr waves to Jan..
16:06 < bminish> I tried to sell 10.0.0.0/8 to a broker last week, not heard back on that yet..
16:06 < snobu> oh the guy from lightning talk with 1.1.1.1 THis is gonna be cool.
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16:07 < bminish> this is a good talk, was given at nanog too
16:07 < chrisr> Brians lightning talk is cool
16:07 < GPF> can you please show the slides?
16:08 < brian> chrisr: This will be a slightly shorter version, but hopefully will still be good.
16:08 < rhe-786> Has Geoff admitted to being the censor of the Internet?
16:08 < rhe-786> I might be OK with that.
16:08 < snobu> ah i knew it! Google is with the coomies
16:09 < snobu> *commies
16:09 < Pipa> China is hardly communist
16:09 < ketas> running own fb
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16:10 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> Geoff Huston has asked for questions.
16:11 < chrisr> Question: Jan, did you ever find 'The Trooper' =o)
16:11 < ripe765> lol
16:11 < chrisr> lol
16:11 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> The presentation has ended.
16:11 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> Brian Nisbet, HEAnet, has begun the lightning talk "Imprecise Network Monitoring Tools".
16:11 < ketas> what, i didn't get... cover what?
16:11 < chrisr> hes a never naughty boy
16:11 < chrisr> very
16:12 < bminish> He gave that one at INEX recently, it's a good un
16:12 < chrisr> he did at UKNOF too .. its v good
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16:12 < ketas> bird
16:13 < ketas> the f-word
16:13 < ketas> :)
16:13 < chrisr> ** not applicable in China
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16:13 < bart> hehe where can I donate for this guy :)
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16:15 < rhe-786> bart: Put EUR20 behind the bar. :)
16:16 < bart> :)
16:19 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> Brian Nisbet has asked for questions.
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16:20 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> The presentation has ended.
16:21 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> Wout de Natris, eco, has begun the presentation "ACDC, An Introduction to the Advanced Cyber Defence Centre".
16:25 < murb> a safer internet without this horrible tor relays.
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16:26 < brian> bart: I'll accept all major currencies. :)
16:26 < murb> brian: any crypto currancies?
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16:27 < bart> Brian heheh
16:27 < brian> murb: I haven't dabbled, as yet.
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16:29 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> Wout de Natris has asked for questions.
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16:31 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> The presentation has ended.
16:31 < JOHAN_RIPENCC> This session has now ended.
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16:33 < chrisr> cya tomorrow all ... for those there, have a great evening and hope the cheese was good :)
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